CLIENT SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE NAME         Tim Langley

Telemarketing

Appointments set by CSR            3
Appointments set by App Set       8
Total                                            11

Presentations made this week      7
Number of Presentations TIOs     4
Number of Clients secured           5

Total of Monthly Fees (A)                         $ 1,425.00
Installation fees and Back Work (B)         $3,225.00
Total Amount collected (C )                      $ 4,650.00
Total Amount billed                                    $             -

Additional Compensation     Base & Fuel Amount: 550

Comments     _________________________________________________________

This month I had the pleasure of interviewing Joe Lombardo from Las Vegas, NV. Joe has been the CSR in two separate NCI Plan 2 programs in the Las Vegas market and he was able to accomplish fantastic results for those firms. Read on to gather some insightful tips into running an NCI marketing program.

Tell me about your sales background prior to becoming a CSR for the first time.

I’ve been in sales and marketing since I graduated from Buffalo State University. I initially started out in the insurance business and eventually became an independent property and casualty insurance agent. I did that for many years. Then, when telecom became the hot new industry, I sold my insurance agency and I ended up going into that. I worked doing various things like selling long distance and local service phone systems. I eventually became a Sprint cellular dealer.

About 12 years ago I relocated to Las Vegas from Buffalo. There I worked more on the advertisement side of sales doing direct mail advertising and marketing. About four years ago I had talked to Bob Shafer, who was doing interviews for Bonita Jones, an accountant in Las Vegas. They were implementing the NCI system and hiring the appointment setters and a Client Service Representative. I applied for the CSR job. When I heard about the program, I was really excited. When you’re a sales rep, if you’re really excited about a product you can sell it much more effectively than a product you don’t have much faith in. Prospects will pick up on that added sincerity. Plus, based on the pricing and what you get for the price, I thought it was a phenomenal deal for any small business owner. As a matter of fact, when I had my insurance agency I wish someone had come to me with this service at this price and I would have paid it gladly. That’s really how I felt; I loved the product. I made it known that I really wanted this job and lo and behold, when it came time to choose, both Bob and Bonita ranked me number one out of the candidates and that’s how I got the job.

Tell me about the initial training you received from NCI and how it helped you step into the position?

Initially I shadowed Bob Shafer for field training. I went through the training materials and the presentation and worked to commit that to memory. Then, we went out and he showed me what to do. He was really smooth; he was very good when talking with clients. Then, we transitioned to me presenting the service, with Bob critiquing my performance. Although I had a strong sales background, it was still an adjustment to sell a new product following a new system. Over time, in selling the service, I internalized the presentation to the point where I could recite it in my sleep. It made my job a lot easier.

Aside from your training and your belief in the product you were selling, to what else do you attribute your success as a CSR?

When you’re in sales it’s really a just a process, regardless of what you’re selling. You need to follow the process. The NCI process starts with the appointment setters. It’s a numbers game. I worked the territory a certain way. People in Vegas don’t like to travel much; they just don’t. So I specifically targeted businesses very close to the office location at first and we fanned out from there. It sounds simple and it is, but you have to do it. I think that applies to the whole NCI program. The other part of it is that you need to have a good appointment setter. If you truly want to make this work, it’s a team effort. Over the years I had certain appointment setters who I knew were good at their job. So, when they set me an appointment, I knew it was going to be high quality and I’d have a greater chance to close that one because those prospects really had a need and had a good understanding of why I was coming to their business. Good-quality appointments are extremely important.

Approximately how long did you work for Bonita Jones?

I was with Bonita for a short time, only about six months. In those six months we brought on about 60 new accounts. It was nuts.

How much in billings did those additional 60 clients represent?

Bonita called me into her office one day and I could tell it was not going to be good news. She told me that they were going to shut down the marketing program because she was going to sell the practice. I told her this is the first time I’ve been let go because I did too good of a job! So I called NCI and spoke with Bruce Clark. He told me that NCI had an accountant in Vegas who wanted to do the program but wasn’t quite ready to start yet. I told Bruce that it wasn’t just me who was available but also my two appointment setters and that we could start work immediately. Bruce then used that as an added incentive for Adam to start the program sooner. So Adam rushed to get an office set up to facilitate starting the program, but we made it work.

There are a lot of people out there who believe the NCI program only generates very small- paying clients, to counter that, what are some of the higher-paying clients you remember from your time as a CSR?

The average client I signed was around $200-$300 a month. We had a couple on the larger side, though. I remember one; I think it was a management company that was paying about $750 a month, which included some additional service above and beyond the standard monthly package.

What about back work?  Were you able to secure some good back work from the clients you signed up?

[Laughs] Most of them needed back work done. I’ll tell you a funny story about that. I went down to talk to a business owner who provided computer services. He told me he really needed our service. During the presentation I asked him when he had last filed a business tax return and he said it had been about three years. They’re always embarrassed about revealing those kinds of things, so I told him not to worry about it, I had worse. I told him he’d need to gather all of his information from the past three years so we could price and complete the back work. Later on, Bonita told me that he dropped by with the paperwork. I thought, okay, great. Then she told me he came by in his truck and dropped off his entire filing cabinet! That filing cabinet sat in the office for a while as the work got done. Eventually he came back and picked up his filing cabinet. [Laughs.]

Another time I think this was when I worked for Adam we had a company that had six or seven year’s worth of back work and back taxes. Adam did eventually get them up to date.

That’s quite a story and I’m sure a lot of our readers will be able to relate to that kind of thing.

I honestly think and this is my opinion that a lot of these business owners, especially when they have a lot of back work, are so embarrassed to let me know. They are embarrassed that they let it go that far. That’s why I try to put them at ease by telling the story about the guy who hadn’t filed taxes for six or seven years and how we were able to help them.

That’s great; it makes them feel better about the situation while demonstrating some of the value that the service can provide.

Exactly.  All of a sudden they are opening up about being a year or two behind. The vast majority of prospects are going to have some form of back work. They will eventually agree to have the work done if you can agree on a price because they didn’t do the work before, so what makes you think they’re going to do it now?

It’s only going to get worse.

Right.  Sometimes they don’t want to bite the bullet and pay the extra money. I think that the accountants I worked with are pretty fair and reasonable when it came to pricing the back work. They had to make their money but they didn’t want to starve anyone either.

I think that’s really important to stress. You often have to make concessions on back work, sometimes because the amount they need to pay is usually very large, larger than a small business can reasonably handle without it affecting the business negatively. So you have to spread the payments out and/or give a discount to get the business. I know of some accountants who are not willing to concede at all and I think it ends up costing them a lot of business. I think that is being penny wise and pound foolish. You may take an upfront hit on the work but by helping a client dig out of a hole like that you will build loyalty and have a good-paying client for many years to come. You’ll make the money back in the long run.

I know a lot of CSRs struggle with signing large amounts of back work; do you have any additional tips on handling that?

For a decent amount of back work, we had a simple formula to determine the fee. If the amount got exceptionally large, the accountants I worked for told me to bring in the paperwork so we could develop a fair quote for both parties. They were willing to discount the work and also work out a payment plan for the client to make it manageable for them. So I can use that when I talk to future prospects to let them know we will work with them to get it taken care of. When they hear that, they feel a little bit better. That has to be worked out with the accountant beforehand, though.

That makes sense and I think that is what works for most firms having success. What was your most successful NCI closing technique?

I used to talk to the prospects about becoming an S-Corp.  Alot of them were DBAs or C-Corps and things like that. I gave them the example, especially if they were not an S-Corp or an LLC being taxed as an S-Corp. “If you have x amount of dollars coming in and you take a reasonable salary for the work that you do, we would tax it out this way. Then if you took the balance of the money as a distribution of earnings, which would not be subject to FICA and things like that, I show them quickly and easily how they could save thousands of dollars by simply becoming an S-Corp. They didn’t know that. Bob Shafer loves that close and I picked it up from him during training.

I have heard the same thing from other CSRs that Bob has trained. You are demonstrating knowledge and value to the prospect.

Right, and I would ask people, how do you pay yourself? They would give me their answer. I used to say to the prospect, don’t tell me what you made; it’s not my business, so let’s pick a number out of thin air. Let’s say you made $50,000 last year, here is how you’re going to be taxed on that and here is the amount of tax you will pay based on $50,000. Now, if you are with us and we help you become an S-Corp, you only have to pay this amount. Then I went on to say that this is only one thing that we as professionals know and bring to the table. That’s just one thing and I’m not even an accountant! Imagine all the things the accountant will know that you probably are not aware of.

I like the example that if you are presenting to an auto mechanic you would say, “Would you let an accountant work on the engine of your car?” No, of course not, so why would you, an auto mechanic, handle the financial and accounting side of your business? Let the professionals do the work they are trained to do. It’s well worth it.

Do you have any other advice for any CSRs out there currently working to sign up new business?

One thing I try to do is relate to prospects on their level. If I’m talking to a business owner and he’s very formal and wants to do all his due diligence, I will follow his example and mirror him to an extent. If I’m talking to a mechanic, they do things a little differently; I’m going to try to relate to them on their level and speak their language. You have to be a chameleon. It makes you much more relatable. I have to know how to read and relate to people.

Do you have any advice for our accountant clients reading this about the CSR/accountant relationship and how to maximize the benefits of that?

The number one problem that accountants have, bar none, is following through and following up. It was horrendous at times. The procedure is: I’m getting the appointment setters to make appointments. I’m going out there beating my head against the wall to bring in new accounts. I get the paperwork signed and I get the first check or credit card authorization signed. I bring it back to the office and they drop the ball. They say they could never get in touch with the new client. I ask, “Did you try calling them?”

“Well, not really.”

“Are you kidding me?” You don’t know how many customers I brought on that fell off because no one in the office was in charge of following through with them. The most important advice I can offer is to have someone internally at the firm who is responsible for making sure that each new client is brought into the fold in a timely manner. So when this happens I would get a charge back [losing the commission for signing the client] because the client didn’t pan out. That’s not my fault, I did my job and brought them in the door and now I’m being penalized. It’s demoralizing for a CSR. I also could usually pick up the phone and have the supposedly unreachable business owner on the line within ten seconds, who then tells me they never heard anything from the firm so they decided to go with another accountant. A lot of times, when I would ask about a new account being contacted, the accountant would tell me, I’ll email them. That is not enough. You have to call the new clients. That was my biggest frustration and all the accountants I worked with seemed to struggle with it to some extent.

Understandably so; they’re paying you a salary, they are paying the appointment setters, they paid NCI for the marketing program and the goal behind all of that investment is to get new clients. So, to be having that kind of success and let it fall by the wayside is mind-boggling. I know a lot of struggling accountants would look at that and think, “you’ve got to be kidding me!”

I’d like to thank you for your time on the phone today and for your valuable insight. I’m sure that many of our readers will find this information very useful.

Chris Clark

Jeff and I had some difficulty connecting for this interview, so Jeff ended up typing up his responses to my questions. Jeff has been an NCI student since early in 2003, when he first attended our Plan 1 Practice Development Seminar. Back then, he expressed interest in upgrading to the Plan 2 program. He recently did so and has been getting great results in a small, rural market. Jeff has also attended the NCI Advanced Processing Seminar, which he discusses below and also attended the NCI Advanced Training Conference held in Hilton Head, SC, in 2008.

1.     How long had you been in business when you decided to undertake the NCI program?

I am a veteran of NCI, so to speak. I attended the Plan I Practice Development Seminar back in 2002 and toyed with the marketing program on and off for years before I decided to implement the Plan II in November of 2011.

2.     What were the deciding factors in your choice to undertake the NCI program?

Back in 2002, the use of the internet and other marketing options were not as prevalent as today. I remember seeing some advertising in the Journal of Accountancy on the NCI marketing program. I enjoyed the training I received at the NCI Plan I seminar.  More recently, I felt the NCI program is a good base foundation for marketing in 2011 and onward. I always found myself returning to NCI; their leadership and professionalism has not changed since 2002. It is the rock-solid foundation of my marketing program.

3.     Approximately how much growth have you added since the implementation of the NCI program?

We have secured approximately 35 accounts within the first year, which equates to approximately $9,500 in monthly recurring revenues, or approximately $113,000 a year in new recurring revenue.

4.     What was your biggest concern before signing up for the program?

My biggest concern with us being confined to a smaller market was whether it would be successful? I also had concerns over the cash flow required for the program.

5. What has been your biggest challenge in running the program?

My two main challenges have been keeping a full prospect list for my appointment-setting effort due to market constraints and, also, having personnel prepared for processing this kind of growth.

6.     What advice would you give to someone considering this program?

You must have the right expectations. This is a program that works and takes resources to get off the ground.  All of the various NCI programs are the same system and they all work. The Plan 2 program that I invested in places the critical aspect of hiring and training the right sales representative in NCI’s hands, as opposed to trying to handle that yourself.

7.     What advice would you offer to someone currently running the program or just starting in the program?

Give the program a chance to work. Remember, if serviced properly, these clients will be with you three to five years at a minimum. So, when things get tight, remember the long-term goals of why you are securing a client and the future payoffs, along with the current ones.

8.     What is the largest client signed up in terms of the client’s approximate annual revenues?

One of the largest clients we have secured has been an electrician with gross revenues of several million a year.

9.     What is the largest client in terms of monthly accounting fees that you’ve obtained to date through the marketing program?

Our two largest clients to date are one for $875 a month and one for $950 a month.

10. What is the largest amount of backwork you collected from a single client?

The largest amount of backwork so far was from a profitable corporation that has not filed corporate returns for 10 years nor kept accounting records during that time. The owner simply stated he was too busy making money to handle the accounting and tax work. We were to take a large load off of him. We requested an initial backwork payment of at least $3,000, with more to come.

11. Are you surprised by the growth you have been able to achieve during a very difficult recession?

I am not surprised as this is why I chose NCI. I knew the recession would affect many people and I wanted to have something to fight back with. Many other firms are trying to hold onto the business they have. We are actively growing because of the growth the program is generating.

Regarding attending the NCI Advanced Processing Seminar:

1.     What was it that compelled you to attend that seminar?

I knew that the growth would come from the marketing program.  This type of processing is not typical of many CPA firms. You must be able to process the work to be profitable and to deliver the services in a timely manner. A seasoned NCI CPA firm that can validate first-hand doing this type of work and how to process it efficiently (referring to Duane Gravely, who developed the NCI processing program) was a very compelling reason to attend.

2.     What did you gain by attending?

I gained the viewpoint and starting point for processing this type of work.

3.     What was your biggest challenge with processing before attending?

Having the typical CPA firm mentality towards this work and processing. This has to be done with the right people following the right processes.

4.     Please sum up your feelings on Duane Gravley and his marketing program.

I have modified some things since attending back in 2003. However, it is a good foundation for handling this type of work and giving you the confidence that is can be managed.

Jeff, I would just like to thank you again for taking time out of your busy schedule to fill out these responses. I look forward to touching base in the future to conduct a live interview and update our readers on your ongoing success!

This is a bit of a lengthy interview, but it really speaks for itself. Chuck has been running the program for only six and a half months and has achieved phenomenal results during that short time frame. He is on track to reach his billing guarantee within 12 months (as opposed to the 24-month time frame that the guarantee allows for). Chuck has a lot of great insight into why the NCI program works so well, how this compares to buying a practice and the importance of being prepared to handle the influx of growth the program will produce.

Please tell me about your business and accounting background, starting with where you went to college up through acquiring a practice.

I was the third of three children and my older brother and sister spent all their college money and mine, so I ended up working my way through college at a local university. I attended 13 straight quarters and was graduated top of my class in ’89 and then went to work in Montgomery, AL, which was two hours from where I lived. I decided I needed to go to graduate school so I took the GMAT and did really well. I was offered a scholarship to Ole’ Miss and applied to the Wharton School so that got the wheels turning. I also applied to a couple Ivy League schools and was accepted by Cornell, but I thought about having to pay back $100,000 in student loans and got cold feet about attending. So I moved back home. I had already passed the CPA exam by then, we were in a big recession, and I ended up taking a position as a controller in a company that was, of all things, in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. With me being the ripe age of 23, it presented all kinds of challenges and it was a real learning experience.

After two years of that, I got back into public accounting and worked in a 25-person firm for the next 13 years. I worked my way up to the level of partner and then in 2006, I took a position with one of the firm’s largest clients, which was an entertainment and real estate development holding company. It was a group of about 50 companies and we had all kinds of exciting plans for that. We were able to achieve some phenomenal things while I was there, such as building a $100 million commercial development in 2008 and 2009, which was kind of unheard of at that time. The economy took that company under.

In 2010, I decided I was going to get back into public accounting because public accounting is recession-proof. Also, I was in my 40s by then and I wanted something that would get me through to retirement. Several brokers had contacted me in the past, so I started looking for available firms and found one in Panama City, FL, and we acquired that firm in 2010.

When you went into practice in 2010, how long were you in business before you decided to contact NCI and undertake the marketing program?

I had actually written NCI into the strategic plan I developed while I was in the process of buying the practice. I’ve been following NCI since the first time I saw one of your ads in the Journal of Accountancy about 20 years ago. I had also received information from NCI a few times over the years and had always thought that the program made sense. I was just never in a position to act on it.

You attended the Plan 1 Practice Development Seminar in July of 2011, correct?

Yes, in the process of buying the firm I noticed that their revenues had peaked at about a million dollars in 2007 and that they had been on a negative growth pattern for the next couple years. By the time I was looking at it, its revenues had fallen about 12%. The 2009 revenues were around $875,000. Given the fact that was during the great recession at its worst point, it wasn’t too terribly alarming and we went forward with buying the firm. That was my first acquisition, so I learned a lot.  I also found out they had significant client losses in the second half of 2009, so the firm wasn’t really an $875,000 firm; it was a $675,000 firm. At that point, based on the price that we had paid and the fact that we were purchasing the practice in the middle of the year, I was really reluctant to lay out the capital for the marketing program.  I wanted to make sure we could get through the slow season.

About ten months into the acquisition, the firm had significant concentration risk with one client that made up 18% of annual revenues and 25% of the revenues during the off season. One of our staff accountants showed that client that they could pay him more money than he was making at the firm and it would save their company a lot of money in accounting fees. So that business went away in May of 2011 and we were scrambling to make that up. It was at that point that I made the decision to attend the seminar and check out NCI firsthand. I knew that I needed Plan 2 but I was reluctant to spend that kind of money, especially after losing the big client. At the same time, I really couldn’t afford for it to not work.

So I attended the seminar and came back and implemented what I had learned. In doing so, I learned a few things. One is that the plan works; you make the calls and you get the appointments. I also learned that I couldn’t run a practice and attend five to ten sales calls a week. I didn’t have the time. Lastly, I learned on those sales calls that I could attend, that a lot of the things that hinder an accountant from being a successful salesperson inhibited me, as well.  We accountants sometimes struggle with the salesman’s killer instinct to close the sale,. I did realize that if I had a salesperson at the firm, we would be closing more clients, although I did close some myself.

So you essentially proved to yourself that the system works by attending the seminar and than implementing it. That then gave you the confidence and determination to eventually upgrade into the Plan 2 program.

It did. We made the decision that once we got into the meat of tax season, we would be in a position to launch the Plan 2 program, which we did this past April. At that time, the practice was at around $550,000 in annual billings due to the loss of the large client.

How much growth have you and your sales team been able to achieve since starting the Plan 2 program a little over six months ago?

It’s been really phenomenal from a growth standpoint. We’ve picked up 30 new clients. Overall, our recurring monthly billings from those clients are just over $6,000. In addition to that, we have our annual compliance work that we bill separately. Added together, the amount comes to about $100,000 in new revenue just from the effort of our Client Service Representative. In addition to that, what we’ve been able to learn during the process through sharpening our own skills and taking more advantage of opportunities that the program provides, is that there is another $40,000 in work that I’ve either cross-sold to the new client base or picked up in referrals generated by the program.

Have you seen a good number of referrals as a result of the marketing program?

We have. One story that comes to mind about referrals is that our appointment setters had set up an appointment with a business in the local mall food court. Every time our CSR got about a third of the way into her presentation, one of the vendors would say, “Wait, wait, I have to go grab so-and-so for this.” Before it was done, she was giving an NCI seminar in the food court and she ended up making individual appointments with all of them. She also wound up meeting with the mall manager, so we’re excited about that.

Going back to the revenue, in addition to the $140,000 we’ve already discussed, as you point out at the seminar, sometimes people don’t sign up for the monthly service right away but they will become an annual client or they ask us to contact them at the end of the year. Right now, our end-of-the-year callback list has 41 names on it. We’re highly confident that we’ll close probably half of those, which would represent probably another $50,000 or $60,000 in revenue. Our CSR also has seven prospects in her pipeline right now that are just pending closing and represent another $30,000 in revenue. There is also some pretty big recurring work that we have out there that we’ve quoted and that we think is going to close in the next quarter, which represents another $40,000. One of those is a group of ten hotels and another is a multi-office medical imaging company that we have the approval for and are just waiting for the principle to get back into the country.

Good lord, Chuck, your pipeline is ready to burst! Adding that all up it amounts to $270,000 in recurring revenue in approximately ten months!

It is. It’s presenting some challenges for us. I know from the list of questions you sent me that you ask, what is most challenging about the program. Really, I think the biggest challenge is staffing – on two fronts: first, making sure you have enough staff on hand, because the program works so well you need staff who are willing to handle an increased workload; second, you must ensure you have staff who understand what you are embarking on and that they are plugged into your vision. I know this because we I had a few employees in my office who really weren’t on the same page and didn’t see growth as a positive thing. They had their comfort zone setup and didn’t want to deal with more work. They ended up being toxic to the goals of the program and they eventually resigned. In fact, they were discouraging the salesperson from making sales. The salesperson would come in after picking up a new account expecting high fives and he was getting grunts and frowns from these people.

It’s interesting that you raise that point. I haven’t heard that much before but it makes sense. The program certainly generates more work for your employees, as your comments have illustrated. In the long run, though, that will mean higher compensation and a more secure work environment.

Right, we got to a point where, actually our CSR did it intuitively, where he slowed some things down in regards to sales so that we could work out our processing and staffing issues. If you’re not careful, you run the risk of damaging the long-term success of the program: if you get too many people who you sign up and then are left saying, “Well, I gave you a check to get started and I never got any work back from you.”

Right, you need to be able to provide that work on a timely basis or it defeats the purpose of the whole thing. I think we covered your concerns before signing on for the program: you were in a tight spot with the two practice acquisitions, and you needed the program to work to build up the practice you had purchased, which had been steadily declining.

That’s right, and to go along with that the budget that NCI lays out in your literature.

You’re referring to our Plan 2 and Plan 3 projections.

Yes, the projections on the cost side are pretty spot on. We found the cost to run our marketing program – when you factor in all the differential costs – to be about $6,000 a month. It took us about six months to get to where it was revenue neutral. That was a good milestone to reach.

What advice would you give to other accountants and CPAs who are reading this and considering engaging in either the Plan 1 Seminar or the Plan 2 marketing program?

My initial response is to tell them to go ahead and do it. The best time to do it was two years ago and the second best time is today. By attending the seminar, I think you’ll be impressed with the professionalism of the NCI staff and the quality of the information that you see and hear, along with being able to interact with your peers who are in similar situations in business and some who are trying to decide on upgrading into the Plan 2 program. Go there knowing that it is not just a sales pitch. NCI has a long list of satisfied customers like me going back over 25 years who have achieved amazing results. If you don’t believe that, just ask for the empirical data because NCI keeps track of it. You can see that it is a numbers game and like anything in statistics there is a bell curve. If you hit the numbers, you’ll get the opportunities.

I think that’s a good thing to point out, especially from an accountant’s point of view since numbers and statistics are a big part of what you do. Like you said, if you follow the program and give it a chance, you will get the results. What has been your largest client signed to date?

The largest one that we’ve signed up so far is a $1,500-a-month client. It’s a local magazine that outsources practically their entire backend to us. It was an interesting situation: the publisher was moving to another city so they needed to have someone on the ground that could handle the administration.

What about client back-work?  Have you been seeing a decent amount of that type of work? What is the largest amount you’ve seen there so far?

We’ve had at least five back-work clients who were in the $2,000-$3,000 range, which we found predominant when we were nearing the corporate and individual filing deadlines. We had a number of small business owners who hadn’t done any accounting work for 2011 and who needed their tax returns filed. Back-work has been a learning curve for us and for the CSR in learning how to accurately price and sell it. When we started the program, I had made a big financial commitment and was anxious to get any revenue that I could from it. As I saw the success of the program, I became more and more confident and was able to price the work more appropriately. Plus, as you generate more revenue you generate that luxury.

Sure, you refine the process as you gain experience within it. Have you been surprised by the growth you have been able to generate through the program during a tough economic period?

I have been surprised. I felt like we were going to be successful, but we’re way ahead of where I thought we were going to be. The program guarantees $300,000 in new annualized billing within the first 24 months, and we have a realistic chance of hitting that within 12 months if not sooner.

Wow, plus we are heading into the best time of year to sell these services. Heading into and during tax season is the best possible time, the best is yet to come!

Yes, this is why I hired another staff accountant just this last week [laughs.]

As we discussed, you know better than most to prepare for the storm before it hits. Where do you go from here? What is your end goal with the practice?

I’m committed to run the program and grow the practice as big as it will get. As for long-term goals, I think technology has brought our profession to a point where time and distance are less and less relevant. Just look at where we are right now. We’ve already generated $140,000 and I’ve invested about $70,000 into the marketing program which is a 50% discount to the market, so you can clearly grow an accounting practice for much less money than you can buy one, as NCI indicates in a straightforward way on their website. The marketing plan is transportable, so I think the future of using the NCI model and taking it to the next level. The delivery of services in our industry will be similar to that of the mortgage industry, where you have origination offices from which you can go into another market and open up an office there and put a CSR to work. You’d have to have somebody onsite that can speak accounting, but the majority of the work would be processed at a headquarters-type office, where you can manage the workflow.  I’m of the mindset that you’re either a growing firm or a dying firm, and we want to keep on being a growing firm.

Well, you’re certainly on the right track there. To close this interview, could you just sum up your feelings on NCI, our marketing programs, and our staff?

We’re pleased, obviously, with the results we’re getting. We’re also pleased with the support of NCI; everyone at NCI that is involved with our program continues to follow up with us regularly. It’s not a bait-and-switch kind of program, you guys are plugged in and your client’s success is your success. You’ve treated us like we’re your #1 client and I’m sure you, like all good companies, treat all your other clients like they are the only ones. I think that’s the case. Jeff Arndt, who sold me the program, has been great. My CSR stays in regular contact with him looking for ideas and he’s been good to us. He has to be part counselor, part psychologist, and part motivational speaker [laughs.] The program goes through peaks and valleys and Jeff helps us get through any slow patches we come across. Luckily, we’ve only had two weeks where we didn’t sign up any clients in the 25 weeks we’ve been running the program. Our CSR is doing a great job. In fact, she signed up three clients this week.

That’s excellent; I’ll most likely feature her in an upcoming issue of the newsletter. Chuck, I’d like to thank you for taking the time out to do this interview with me. We appreciate all the kind words and I can’t wait to hear about your continued success.

Chris Clark

Please tell me about your sales background prior to becoming a CSR.

My first sales job was with a small regional stockbrokerage firm on the west coast. We had a NASD Correspondence relationship with Merrill Lynch – I was the director of training and recruiting for the San Diego branch office.  They had a stockbroker training school that helped individuals pass the stockbroker exam and a program to help them develop their book of business. We grew to over 1,500 brokers in less than 7 years helping all sorts of individuals – Insurance agents, Realtors, and CPAs, become Registered Reps and launch their financial advisory business. I later went into investment banking working for a local hedge fund that specialized in high tech start-ups. I did due diligence on potential companies we had targeted as possibly funding opportunities for the firm.  I worked with CFOs, controllers, and accountants that worked for the small companies.

How valuable was the training you received from NCI at the start of your employment as a CSR?

NCI actually uses a lot of the core elements we used in helping an individual initiate and grow their financial practice, except NCI has a very specialized discipline approach to bootstrap and expand an accounting practice. The training helped me focus and build off my experience and sales-skills-set.

What do you attribute your success in this position to?

I attribute my success to following the prescribed steps outlined in the program.  The NCI program is a direct-marketing campaign that executes and implements the basic sales process cycle.  The key is not to re-create the cycle, change, or cut corners but, rather, use it simply as a “best practice” model.

How long have you been working as a CSR and in that time roughly how much in annualized billings have you been able to add for the firm?

The first practice I started working for was in 2008. The first year we went from 0 to over $165,000 in billing.  The practice was sold after being in business for just over a year for 1 times it’s gross value and with only one tax season under operation.

What is the largest monthly client you have been able to secure thus far through the marketing program?

The biggest client we had under the program was a high-profile hedge fund in Newport Beach. The monthly billings ranged from $2,000 to $3,000 a month, depending on what work and reports needed to be processed.

What is the largest back-work amount you have secured from an individual client through the marketing program?

There were several clients where we had to go back three to four years to get them caught up in order to file back taxes.

What is your most successful NCI closing technique?

I like to use the “Ben Franklin” close, where a simple chart is made up to illustrate the benefits of switching to our service from what they are currently receiving, because I generally like to bundle services together, such as bookkeeping, taxes, payroll, financial products, insurance. I show how much savings the prospective client will realize by having us provide all the various financial services as a one-stop shop for their financial needs. The typical small-business owner really appreciates when he only has one number to call for his financial and business needs. Plus this generates multiple revenue streams for the accountant and commands a higher valuation for the practice. Multiple migration paths are the key to unlocking the full potential value of any business model or practice in this case.

What advice do you have for other CSRs out in the field to help them sign up more clients?

Be sure to ask for referrals up front.  Don’t wait to service the account over the course of several months, ask them right when you first sign them up for the service. I had a beauty salon in a strip mall which, over the course of our initial months working together; had referred most all the businesses in that shopping center.

What advice do you have for other accountants who are currently engaged in the NCI marketing program from a CSRs perspective?

Treat the relationship as a partnership or even a marriage – a “marriage of money” in this case – knowing that the CSR is the wheels of the bus.  The more clients the CSR brings on board for you, the faster and farther the bus travels and the greater your revenue. Always keep an open and strategic mindset while looking for new areas of opportunity, knowing that your CSR is your eyes and ears out in the field.

What is the most difficult aspect of your job?

Initially it is finding a good appointment setter – finding someone who is dedicated and is a part of the team. This is not your typical career-path job.  They have to be able to work independently while the CSR is out in the field selling.

What is your favorite thing about this job?

The most enjoyable aspect of this job for me is that I get to meet many of the new and future entrepreneurs of America. Not only meet them but offer advice and help them launch their business and realize their hopes, dreams, and ambitions. The CSR job really sits at the root of our free enterprise system, so many of our clients come from other countries and say they would never be able to have a business like they started here in America back in their country. This gives me a great sense of accomplishment and pride.

I’d like to thank George for taking the time to answer these questions for our readers. I would also like to welcome him to the NCI team, where all of his experience will serve our future clients exceptionally well.

Chris Clark

What does an accountant do when they’re looking to start and grow an accounting practice but don’t know where to begin? Gary Adams faced that dilemma back in 1993 when he decided to attend our Practice Development Seminar. Gary is a smart man and he knew that starting a business is filled with potential pitfalls and false starts. He didn’t want to start a business, a risky and costly proposition for most, without a good plan for success and that is exactly what he received from training with NCI at our seminar.

How long had you been in business and what was the size of your practice when you decided to attend the NCI Practice Development Seminar?

I was at zero. I had no clients and no office. I had been a CPA since ’76 and I’d worked initially for a CPA firm out in Norfolk, VA. I was in private industry from that time until ’92 or ’93. I attended the seminar in ’93. I ran across an advertisement in the Journal of Accountancy and what I was looking for was a proven game plan that I could follow and that is exactly what I got out of attending the seminar.

At the time I attended, I really had a very limited, small, business accounting and very limited, recent, tax preparation experience. So I was interested not only in growing my business from the marketing aspect, I was also very interested in the operational side of the seminar. There are any number of key things in addition to marketing that were brought up at the seminar; there were a lot of details that proved to be very, very valuable.

One of the first things that I recall as being very important, was Bruce said something to the effect that, “don’t try to do everything yourself.” He recommended that one of the first things to do was to hire a competent bookkeeper. So I hired my bookkeeper before I had a client. Bruce advocated another seemingly small thing that turned out to have a large impact: the type of phone system to get in my office. Those types of things save so much aggravation. I remember Bruce talking about the write-up software he suggested we use. I went with that software (I’ve forgotten the name of it now) but, man, that software really did a great job! I may or may not have been able to find that on my own.

There were so many shortcuts provided through the seminar that proved to be immensely valuable. The value came from the time that knowing those things in advance saved me, and it also saved me a lot of aggravation by avoiding a lot of potential missteps. Of course, the marketing is incredibly important, too; without the revenue, you don’t have anything. The appointment setting approach is very arduous, but it works; it brings in the clients. The most successful marketing that was done, as far as the presentation is concerned, ended up being done by me, even though I’m the least appropriate salesperson that could be. One day I went on four appointments and brought home four new accounts. I loved it. There were many days during the time that I had that practice, which is up until about two and a half years ago, that I grossed more than what I paid for the seminar on a daily basis, many days.

We did both in-house appointment setting and also hired an outsource appointment setting firm at one point. Another thing I learned at the seminar is that working with appointment setters can be difficult because telemarketing is such a tough job. It requires a unique type of person to be successful. Sometimes those unique people can be difficult to come across. Bruce did give us a heads up on that at the seminar; he told us it would be one of the more difficult aspects of the process.

How large were you able to grow the practice from startup by using the marketing program and sales presentation you learned at the seminar?

Our highest year towards the end around the time I sold the practice through NCI was a little over $600,000. We had been at around $400,000 for about ten years. It all came down to how much time and energy I had to put into the marketing program. Whenever I had the energy for it, I would go back to marketing and continue to grow the practice through my sales efforts.

What was your biggest challenge running the marketing program? We’ve covered some of this already with the inherent difficulty of utilizing appointment setters.  Was there anything else that stood out?

Finding multiple-talented bookkeepers was a challenge. The first bookkeeper I hired worked for me for 15 years and she continues to work for the firm under the new owner now. It’s really difficult to find accomplished bookkeepers to turn out the volume that the NCI marketing approach can generate.

That’s definitely something to be aware of; you have to be ready for the kind of growth this program can generate or you can get overwhelmed.

Right.  Having the marketing game plan and having the basics of the infrastructure in place that fit together harmoniously that was a good thing. It all added to the success of the practice.

What advice would you give to an accountant out there considering growing using the NCI system?

I would say, go to the seminar, pay attention and take notes and the closer you come to implementing it as it’s outlined, the more successful you will be.

Do you have any advice for someone who is getting the program started?

I would say stick to it, keep doing it.  There will be days and even some weeks where you’re not successful, but it’s very much a numbers game and all the numbers are calculated to work in your favor.  But you have to keep doing it.

That’s a good point. Persistence is huge in all types of sales and marketing.

In this case, persistence will be very well rewarded. I’ve introduced several accountants to NCI over the years and the CPA who bought my practice was actually a New Clients, Inc. graduate who had attended the seminar about three years before he bought my practice. So, it was a natural transition for both of us.  He took what he had and melded in with what we had and there was very little aggravation on his part to bring our practice in. Since he purchased the practice about two and a half years ago, he’s increased the size of my former practice by, I think, 50% so far. I was very pleased; you never know how these things will work out. It worked out very well for me, it worked out very well for him, and it worked out very well for our clients.

What was the size of the clients you were gaining through the program, both on average and on the higher end?

I would say the average was around $250-$300 a month and we had a few in the $500-$700-a-month clients. Within two or three months after I left the practice, one of the prospects I had been working on turned into a $5,000-a-month client that went to the buyer. I’m glad all the effort I put into that thing wasn’t wasted. It helped the buyer become more successful and made him feel even better about the transition. While I didn’t get the direct benefit, at least it wasn’t in vain.

How did you make out with collecting back-work from clients?

I remember collecting $2,000-$3,000 in back-work from a few clients. It was really hard to get some of the newer businesses to part with that kind of money, though. What I found with the prospects I met with is that some of them are responding to cost pressures. Being a small business owner is a really tough thing to do.

What other benefits came from having NCI help you find a buyer and broker the deal?

Bruce Clark found a buyer for me within a month; it took maybe two or three weeks. The things that I said to the buyer as we were getting to know each other, were not only factually based, but they also fit within the knowledge the buyer had of how his practice worked. So the things I would say would be immediately understood as either absolutely true and not distortions of the facts just to make the practice look good. He would take the things I said at face value because they matched up with his personal experience, since we were both using the NCI program to grow our respective businesses. If we had been dealing with someone not familiar with the NCI approach, there could have been a lot more doubt and a lot less confidence in the transaction.

Can you sum up your decision to use NCI to grow your practice?

My decision to work with New Clients, Inc. has been one of my better financial decisions. I wish you guys the best and continued success and I have referred people to you in the past when appropriate, and will continue to do so moving forward. I love to offer assistance to new accountants just starting out, and I can’t think of anything that would be more helpful to them than to direct them to attend your seminar so they can avoid a lot of inevitable problems, if they try to do it all on their own.

Thank you, Gary, for your time on the phone today and your kind words. We are also incredibly appreciative for any referrals you have sent to us or will send to us in the future. Good luck to you, as well, in your current and future endeavors.

To follow up on last month’s interview with Don Hillman, this interview features Don’s CSR, Ben Walton. Ben gives good insight into what makes a great CSR and his results speak for themselves. Read on to hear his story and make sure your CSR reads this ASAP!

Please tell me about your sales background prior to becoming a CSR for Don.

I started out as the youngest person ever hired by Northwestern Mutual Financial Network. I was the first person hired without a four-year degree. I was hired as a freshman in college.

How did you manage to get into the program with no degree and being only 19?

I called in and set up an interview. No one asked if I had a degree. When I went in for an interview, the Head of Associates asked me, “What are you doing here? It said in the paper you need a four-year degree. I told him, “Look, I don’t care what the paper said.  If you give me the information, I know I can sell it; if you give me an opportunity, I know I’ll succeed. I figured if you interviewed me, you’d hire me and I didn’t want to let a little detail like a piece of paper stand in the way of that.” He looked right at me and said, “You’ve got guts.” I’m a firm believer that a salesman is born, not made, and if you’ve got it in you, all that’s needed is product knowledge.

 That’s where I got my initial sales training, and their sales training program is pretty outstanding. It teaches you how to read people and how to close people based on their personality type, things like that. I had my Series 6 I sold life and health insurance and was getting started into the 401ks, 503bs and things like that. The ultimate goal there was to be a financial planner and stock broker. September 11^th hurt. I wasn’t in it long enough at the time to withstand the fallout from that. Plus at 19, it’s very difficult to sit in front of a 50-year-old attorney who’s making $200,000 a year and getting them to invest with you.

Later on, I found the ad in the paper for the CSR position and it’s been great. I’ll tell you what: it’s almost like every sales job I’ve had up until this point, and I’ve done sales door to door, I’ve done telemarketing, you name it, I’ve probably sold it at some point, it’s almost like every sales job I’ve ever had gave me a piece of the puzzle to be successful at this. I understand what it’s like to be an appointment setter and get hung up on.  It’s a tough job. I couldn’t be happier with the two appointment setters NCI hired for the firm, Jaime and Josh. Two weeks ago, between the two of them, they set 15 appointments in five days.

That’s excellent; those appointments are crucial.

Without a doubt, the telemarketers are essentially what feed the beast.  If they’re not producing, it just makes it that much harder for me, since I need to spend more of my time prospecting to make up for that and my time is obviously best spent selling. With Don, I couldn’t ask for a better boss who is fully invested in the marketing program. He told me at the outset that I need somebody to take this program and just run it.  He said, “I need to spend my time doing what I need to be doing, so I need someone who can run the program as if it was their business.” So he’s given me the flexibility to work with the appointment setters as I see fit and to allow them some leniency on things that allow them to do their jobs better.

That gels exactly with what Don told me when I interviewed him last month. He made it a point to highlight you and your appointment setters for the great job you’ve been doing because you are largely autonomous and don’t need his oversight. It’s great that he has that confidence in his marketing team.

That trust is really what drew me to the job. I’ve run businesses, I’ve run sales teams.  I don’t know that I’d be as effective if I had to answer for every little thing that I did.

Well, the results you have been able to generate thus far certainly help in keeping that hands-off approach going.

When we started the program, it was right in the middle of tax season. The person at NCI who sold Don the program had told him that it takes some time to get going, that you need to have some patience, and that tax season isn’t a bad time to start because there is a bit of a learning curve before the program really takes off. By the time it takes off, you’ll be done with tax season. (Laughs) It didn’t really go that way for us; it took off from day one. It’s a great problem to have but I think it caught Don by surprise.  There has only been one week since I started that I haven’t sold two or more accounts. There was one week where I only signed up one, but during that same week I also got two payroll-only clients.

That’s an excellent track record with great consistency.

I had one week where I signed up five new monthly clients.  That’s been my best week so far.

What about your best month?

This past June was my best month, with 12 clients signed up. I’m averaging just over $1,000 a month in new monthly billing that I’ve added. That’s just monthly accounting work. That’s not counting payroll, back-work or tax returns.  Don and I recently worked up the total amount of new business brought in and we came up with $90,000 in new business added so far in total. That’s in just less than five months of running the program.

How valuable was the NCI training when you got started five months ago?

The training was great; having Bob Shafer with me for a week was huge. You can train in a classroom setting all you want but you have to see it done. Being able to go out and watch Bob, seeing how comfortable he is as soon as he walks in the door to meet with a business owner made an impact. It’s that confidence of “I know I have the best product; I know I can give you a great price, you’ve just got to trust me.” I respect and look up to Bob. He’s a great trainer. His ability to put prospects at ease immediately really caught my attention.

Bob has developed his own closing technique for young businesses that he calls the S Corp close to use when you’re working with newer businesses that aren’t aware of the benefits of being an S Corp. It’s a great closing technique; I use it regularly. Basically you explain to them why an LLC might be beneficial for them and why and S Corp might be beneficial for them. It breaks down as an S Corp rather than taking money out as an owner’s draw as a sole proprietor, you’re able to take money out as a salary and a distribution of earnings and distribution of earnings are then not subject to the self-employment tax. I explain what kind of savings that can provide. You take someone who has been in business for a year or a year and a half as a sole proprietor and show them that if they are turning a profit, there is no reason to give that extra money to the IRS. I’ve sold many accounts based solely on that closing technique. You have to be careful using it with an “old Mr. Businessman”-type owner, though; you don’t want to show him up or offend him. You have to use the right tools for the right person, which goes back to being able to read people.

That’s great, I like that, it really sets you up as an advisor and shows that you have their interests at heart.

You look more like a business consultant that way, which is a term I use a lot when presenting.  I love the job; it’s a blast and it’s the easiest sales job I’ve ever had.  The NCI material is great; the presentation is phenomenal.  The need for the service is out there, plus people get so overcharged for their accounting service. I keep a log of the other accounting firms that prospects are using in the area, plus if, I can gather what a prospect is paying, I can start to see what the rates of those firms are. Then, when I run into someone who is using an accounting firm I am familiar with, I already know that their prices run high or things like that.

That is a great idea, keeping a log of all that important knowledge you gain in the field.

Exactly, otherwise I’d forget. So I compile this information and I start to notice patterns. Down the road I can exploit those patterns to my advantage.

To what else do you contribute your success in the position?

It has to be teamwork.  Josh and Jaime are amazing appointment setters and Don is a great accountant who has allowed the program to flourish.  I could see where some accountants would micromanage and get in the way.

What kinds of back-work are you able to secure so far?

I signed one that is $3,000 in back-work and a couple others around $2,200 for back-work. We ran into one recently that is looking like it’ll be $7,500-$10,000 in back-work.

I know some CSRs and accountants struggle with collecting a large amount like that. How do you collect a large back-work amount?

We’ll break up the payments or build them into the monthly fees. With the client who has $3,000 worth of back-work, we gave him 10 months to pay that. We had to do that to secure the deal, and he’s a $250-a-month client on top of the back-work. What I’ve done that helps me close large back-work deals is I take the number and I put it back on the prospect. I’ll ask them, “What can we do to make this work? My job isn’t to come in here and bury you or scare you or dig you into a hole. My job is to get you out of the hole.” If you take the time to explain where you’re coming from and that obviously you need to get paid for this back-work, they understand that. Most of the people who I talk to end up admitting that they dug themselves into a hole and they know it’s going to cost them to get out of it. So I’ll tell them: this is the monthly fee, how much can you afford to pay for the back-work?  Most of the time they throw out a number that is close to the one I already had in my head and then we can work out the details from there. I’ve found that if you put the onus on them instead of just throwing numbers at them, it works out better because they feel more in control of the situation.

It’s good to see you use what you learned during training concerning pricing and collecting back-work. That makes a lot of sense.  You have to convey that you have their best interests at heart and you want to work with them to fix their problems, not against them. What has been your most successful NCI closing technique?

The post-dated-check close has been very successful. I’ve been able to close with that probably about eight to ten times so far.  I use the post-dated-check as a last resort before I leave the appointment.  When I get the sense that a prospect wants to do the program, but they need to check finances or think it over, when they want to do it but are afraid to do it is when I use the post-dated-check close. I’ll say, “I have a way we can take care of that while we’re both still here. Obviously it’s my job to try and finalize this while I’m here: I kind of chuckle when I say this last part, because when I do that it seems to put them at ease; that I’m not really trying to push them into a decision on the spot. Then I bring up post dating a check, I offer a week to finalize the decision and tell them that I will personally hold onto the check, so there is no way it ends up getting deposited and that I will call them before we deposit it to make sure they are on board.  If for some reason they aren’t, I’ll personally come back and hand they their check. I’ve yet to have one of those fall through. In fact, by the time I’ve finished with the paperwork and the agreement, all but one told me to just go ahead and deposit the check on the agreed-upon date. I only had to call and check with one person before depositing.

I’m glad you mentioned that as we have a lot of CSRs and accountants who are reluctant to use this method as they feel it’s too pushy. Your experience proves otherwise.

That’s it. Now the referrals are starting to come in. The first couple months you have to build up to that, but we are starting to see those come in and they are the easiest things in the world to close. Counting first-and second-meeting closes; my closing rate is about 60% right now.  For first-call closes, I’m at about 40%.

Those are fantastic numbers.

Thanks, one thing I wanted to mention is the inverted pyramid from the NCI sales training.  The one where you turn the traditional sales triangle on its head. It’s brilliant. It’s absolutely genius. Spending more time in the beginning getting to know the person and their business, with less time on the presentation and the close, is phenomenal. It’s very effective. I was taught from the very beginning to keep it short and sweet early on, get to the presentation and then spend an hour on the close.

I think people are worn out on that approach anymore. It’s pretty much a cliché at this point and it’s really not the most pleasant sales experience usually.

Definitely.  One thing that has helped a lot is the different approaches the appointment setters take. One of them goes by the book and follows the NCI scripts closely. The other one is more of a salesperson, so I let him do his own thing a bit more and I tell him if you can get them on the phone, be yourself, be flexible and keep them on the phone. If they haven’t said no or hung up, there is still interest there. One thing that has really upped his numbers and the quality of the appointments he sets is I told him to say the appointment will only take 15 or 20 minutes, maybe a half hour if you like where it’s headed.  When I say that, I don’t mean an hour (even though he and I know it could end up being that long or longer.) That helps to put them at ease and if I read someone and they’re closed up and not going to listen and not going to do anything (it’s really easy to tell that) I can be out of there within 20 minutes. If they are interested, then they don’t end up caring that the meeting runs long because you’re offering them a product that they want and need at a good price. In that case, it really doesn’t matter if you’re there for two hours. I’ve never had a complaint about that. The other thing I’ve encouraged him to do (and that he’s good at) is he’ll tell them that we don’t use high-pressure sales tactics, we’re not going to come in and browbeat him, we won’t sit there until he kicks us out; it’s not like that. It’s all about comparing services and fees. He has gotten more people to switch from a “no” to a “yes” using that method than anything else.

That’s very interesting. It’s definitely a slightly unorthodox approach, but I think it goes back to people being burnt out on, and weary of, the hard sales pitch. If you can set the stage that that isn’t our approach, I can see that making people more agreeable to an appointment.

That makes me think of a time recently where a prospect was signing the agreement and he told me he wasn’t really interested in meeting with me but Josh convinced him to, and he was glad he did because I wasn’t not like other salespeople. It was an adjustment (laughs) because I did hard sales for 10 years.

I’m sure it was.  What was that adjustment like? You said you really liked this job, so I’m assuming it was a natural transition once you got over the initial deprogramming from other sales environments. 

It was.  At first I was taught that if you leave after your first meeting without closing, then it’s a dead deal; you’re never going to get that chance again. You close them on the first call or it’s dead; that’s how I was taught sales. In this, it hasn’t been that way – if I give them a week or two to put it all together, I have a very good close rate on the backend of that. I even had one client that we just signed, where I had sat with him and he told me, “look, I’m in the process of changing business, I’m not even going to be ready to go for a month.” I followed up with him a couple of times after a month, but didn’t hear anything from him, after about 3 ½ months after I first sat down with him, he called me and said, “look, we just got the new business open and I need some help, I really don’t know what I’m doing and I want you guys to come out and see me next week.” Then we signed him.

You kept putting your name in front of him, made a good impression, and when the time was right he came back to you. We talk about that through the seminar – given enough time, things change for people.

Absolutely, and if you show them a favorable impression, they will remember you. As long as you’re not browbeating and going over the top, and are just showing concern for their welfare, they want to work with you when the time is right.

People buy from those they like; they want an advisor and it really is a type of partnership, an inter-personal relationship.

It’s a great job, and I’ll be honest with you, I have goals. In a few years, when Don’s ready to sell this business, I’d like Bob’s job – I want to train people for NCI.

You know what?  When you were talking about Bob and how good he was at his job and the fact that you really enjoyed your role when you hired and trained those salespeople, that was the first thing that popped into my mind. I’ll definitely be mentioning it to Bruce Clark.

I’ll keep my numbers up to show that I’m consistent!

You already made the cut for the interview, so you’re off to a great start. That’s where a lot of our Senior Account Executives get their starts: by doing what you’re doing.

What advice do you have for CSRs out in the field?

Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. The program that you have is great, and if you’re struggling, 9 times out of 10 you’ve left the basics. You have to get back to the basics. No matter what version of sales I’m in, if something is wrong you’re probably away from the program. Get back to basics, concentrate on what you do, and believe in what you’re doing. Believe that customer service is the most important issue. If you don’t believe that a CSR is what you want to be, you can’t do this job. You have to take care of your customers. That’s one thing that I’ve found is very important to me, and I take it very personally if my customers are unhappy with something that I can affect.

You take responsibility for that and you want to provide for them.

Absolutely. I make promises that we’re going to take care of them and I want to make sure that’s happening.

Don has obviously done a good job of upholding his end of the bargain, because that can be an issue, too.  If the work isn’t being processed in a timely fashion, the sales rep starts to lose confidence because they’re making promises that they’re not sure are going to be kept.

Regarding that, he hired another bookkeeper, named Mike, who has been a godsend. If Mike has a client who’s missing a couple of bank statements, he will run out and get them himself.  He knows that I’m seeing new prospects, I’m taking care of other clients, and sometimes for me to drive 60 miles to get a piece of paper when it’s down the street from the office, is unreasonable. Mike goes out of his way to work with the customers; he goes out and meets with them, introduces himself, and as the bookkeeper for their account, they know him as much as they know me. I think that has been a big benefit to how well the program has gone. Mike has been great.

Having that support structure is important.

Like I said, it’s been a blessing because the whole office works on a teamwork basis. Everybody is gung-ho into the program and sees the benefit: if the business grows, everybody benefits. Everybody has really jumped in with both feet and said, “Let’s do it.”

That sounds like a really nice environment to work in.

It’s phenomenal, I love it.

What about some advice for accountants out there who are engaged in the program from the CSR’s perspective? On the one hand, Don’s pretty hands off, so if you’ve got a capable team let them do their thing, make sure you process the work on time and deliver on the promises of your salesperson.

Yeah, that’s the bottom line. Don’t let your salesperson’s promises go unheeded, because if that happens, you’re going to start losing business. Word travels fast. If you’ve got a CSR who is capable of running the program and the marketing team, let him do it. The more that he can focus on selling and managing the sales side of the business, the better off you’re all going to be. If Don was standing over my shoulder constantly and trying to micromanage in a way where I had to focus on that rather than what I’m focusing on now, it would hurt the business. I turn in weekly paperwork to him showing what we worked on.  We meet on a weekly basis, but I don’t have to report to him every day and tell him what I did.

What would you say to an accountant who is considering engaging with NCI to do a marketing program?

The program works; all you’ve got to do is trust in it.  Let NCI find the right CSR, telemarketers and people, and you can be very successful. You’d almost be foolish not to. If you really want to grow your business, there’s no better program.

You are a testament to that statement. We really appreciate your time and all the kind words. Keep up the good work!

Chris Clark

When I asked Don Hillman if he would be interested in doing a success story interview with me, he agreed on one condition. He said that he would do the interview as long as we gave plenty of credit to the fantastic marketing team that NCI hired and trained for him. Of course I agreed, so here we are. Don told me that he is fairly hands-off with his marketing team, so they deserve a lot of the credit for developing that $75,000 in new business.  Don’s CSR is Ben Walton and his two appointment setters are Joshua and Jaime and as you will see, they are very good at what they do.

To start off, please tell me about your business background.

I’m a 1968 graduate of Ball State University. I have an MBA from Xavier University in Cincinnati. I spent 22 years in industry, working my way up to vice president of finance for a major industrial manufacturer. The company was bought out and they “cleaned house,” so that’s why I bought my first practice back in 1992. I built that practice up to a fairly good size and sold it in 2005 thinking I was going to relocate. That did not happen, so I bought my current practice in 2009. During the four years in between, I worked for a CPA firm. When I bought my current firm, it was billing around $250,000. A year and a half ago I bought another practice that brought the size to about $435,000. Last calendar year, 2011, my billing was $435,000.

How much in billing has your marketing team been able to generate since initiating the program in February, 2012?

They have added $50,000 in recurring monthly billings. That doesn’t include several back-work projects they’ve secured.  It also doesn’t include tax work from those clients and it doesn’t include the 10-12 payroll clients we have picked up through the marketing. So I’m guessing that the true amount, when factoring in those other items, is around $75,000 worth of new billings generated by the marketing program in four months, so far.

Amazing. What were some of the factors behind your decision to undertake the program?

Last year I was getting ready to put my budget together and I realized that I had lost about $20,000 in business through no fault of my own. Some companies went out of business; some people bought QuickBooks off the shelf and suddenly thought they were accountants and were going to do it themselves. So I said, this can’t continue; I need a way to recoup that business. At that rate, in ten years, I’m out of business. So, I got an email from NCI promoting the Orlando Practice Development Seminar in January and I spoke with your dad and decided to go with Plan II.

What has been your biggest challenge in running the program?

The tremendous amount of work it’s creating.  When you bring in 30-plus clients in four months, it puts a strain on your processing. Plus, a lot of them are newer businesses that have never worked with an accountant, so we have to train them.

What would you say to someone considering starting a Plan II program?

Be prepared. You have to be prepared to work with new clients and get them up to speed. You only get one opportunity to make that first impression. Plus, the CSR promises them good service, so you have to deliver on those promises; otherwise, the CSR will have a hard time going out and promoting you. You have to keep their trust.

That’s a great point. Your CSR has to have faith in you and your firm’s ability to process efficiently or they can’t, in good faith, sell the service.

What advice can you offer to our other clients currently running a Plan II program?

Well, I have good communication with my CSR, Ben Walton. He comes in and lets me know what’s going on and how full the pipeline is.  We talk about two or three times per week. For example, he signed a client yesterday and he is signing three today. We have three big ones next week that he thinks he’s going to sign up. All three of them would be $500-a-month clients. I’m pretty hands-off overall, though. I’ve been very fortunate that NCI hired three good people who know what they’re doing. Ben oversees the appointment setters, Joshua and Jaime, and he likes doing that. We’ve had a couple little situations and he has handled them without hesitation.  Ben has business-to-business sales experience and he has also done appointment setting. So, he knows what the appointment setters are going through and he can offer good suggestions. He’ll sit and listen to them calling and critique their performance even today, four months into the program. If he notices the number of appointments dropping, he’ll critique the appointment setters and help them get back on track.

That’s excellent, and exactly what he should be doing, since part of the CSR’s job responsibility is to oversee the appointment-setting effort.

The appointment setters, on average, are setting one and a half to two appointments each per day. They’re setting about nine to twelve appointments a week in total and Ben is closing around 50% of them.

Wow, based on those numbers, you have a great team in place.

Our appointment setter, Jaime, set an appointment yesterday at 5AM in the morning. What happened was she was trying to reach a bakery. They told her that the owner was only in from 11PM to 7AM because he bakes the products overnight. So, she took it on herself to get in touch with the owner at five in the morning and she scheduled the appointment. That was pretty impressive.

That’s the kind of thing you love to see in your appointment setters. What is the largest amount of back-work your CSR has brought in so far?

We’ve gotten two years of back-work from a client. I’m meeting another guy next week who’s already signed up and that’ll be about three to four thousand dollars to do some tax returns and some back-work and also reviewing a few other tax returns.

Are you surprised by the amount of work the program has been able to generate for you during this enduring recession?

Very much so; I’m overwhelmed at the success of it thus far. I hired a new accountant when I started the program just to handle the inflow of new work. This program that we have in place right now is going as advertised by NCI, if not more so. My goal is to have a million dollar practice. I’m about halfway there right now. Then, I can think about retiring.

You’re on your way. That’s great, you can join the NCI million dollar club and then we can help you sell your practice. That’s all I have for you, Don. I just want to thank you, again, for taking time out of your schedule to chat with me and we look forward to working with you to help you reach your million-dollar goal.

Chris Clark

This interview is a follow up to our feature of CPA Tim Howard as a success story. This interview is with Tim’s CSR, Charles Katz, who has been in the position for about 16 months now and he has a lot of sales wisdom to share.

Please tell me about your sales background and what led you into your current role as a CSR?

I majored in Accounting and Marketing in college. The vast majority of my sales training took place at Merrill Lynch. I did work in public and private accounting for a few years after college but moved to Merrill Lynch and received tremendous sales training for a six-month period of time before they took the handcuffs off and let me go to work. It was very effective sales training.

What was it that attracted you to this job?

I think it was the skill set that I had and the way the job was being advertised. It was having the opportunity to meet with people who were business owners to discuss their business and accounting needs. That seemed very attractive to me with the skill set that I have in developing relationships and having a strong foundation in being able to discuss a bit about the accounting world.

Interesting; it seems like a great fit with your background.

I think with any sales position - especially in this position as a NCI it’s very important to truly believe in what you’re presenting and selling. If you have a passion for it, I think that comes across when you’re speaking to a stranger about who and what you represent and the services you’re trying to provide them. CSR with a firm working with –

What about the training you received from NCI at the start of your employment as a CSR? Can you tell me about how that helped you become acclimated to this position and the way you sell accounting services?

I would say without training, I wouldn’t exist in this position. I’m not trying to reinvent the wheel; I follow the training to a “T” and I follow the presentation.  I truly believe in being consistent and following the presentation. It works; you don’t have to ad-lib.  You have to be a good listener in responding to objections.  I think the training I got from NCI was invaluable. NCI

We’ve talked a little bit about your training and your background, but could you go a little more in-depth about the success you’ve had as a CSR and what you attribute that to?

Sure. I work closely with the appointment setters here; I have a strong bond with them and I’ve tried to create a team environment where we’re all in it together. I’ve tried to help them understand the kind of appointments I’m looking for and I try to do a little bit of prequalifying of prospects. I would attribute my success primarily to consistency: doing enough of the right things every day, getting in front of people, trying to do some prospecting myself, and just being consistent on a day-to-day basis. The other thing I think is very important in this position is working your pending file, or your pipeline, however you refer to it. My closing ratio is 5% to 10% on a first visit. So if you go in knowing that, you will realize that you must continue to work your pending file and be politely persistent when you’re calling people back.

That makes a lot of sense. You have to follow up and you have to have a lot of perseverance in this position.

I try very hard to follow my prospect’s wishes. If they say, “call me back in a week,” I will. I try to let them know, too, that if they want me to call them, they need to give me a date and a time. If you do that, you’re building credibility with your client. If your client says to call in ten days at , try as hard as you can to call them that day and time and remind them that they asked you to call them back at that time. That’s how you build credibility. It’s very important to build that credibility and trust. 10 a.m.

How long have you been in the position as a CSR?

The first month that I went into production was in December 2010. It’s been about 16 months.

Do you know roughly how much business you’ve brought into the firm?

My boss here tells me that my billings are annualizing at about $150,000.

What is the largest monthly client that you can recall being able to secure through the marketing program?

First of all, the minimum fee that my firm here in , FL, is willing to accept is $200 a month. I have brought in a couple clients where their monthly fees were in the $600-$800 range, not including any back-work or tax-return work.Jacksonville

Very nice.

It could be helpful to sales reps that a lot of what we do can help some small business owners to not need a part-time bookkeeper if you can take things off their hands.  Even at $600-800 a month, you’re saving that business owner significant money over having an employee and all the employee expenses, payroll taxes and benefits that go along with that.

That’s a good point. We recommend that our clients and CSRs look in the paper for people that are running ads looking for a part-time bookkeeper for the same reason.

Another thing regarding becoming successful in this position: I tell prospects during my presentation that the best compliment we can receive from a client is when they consider us to be their trusted business advisor. I let them know that acquiring their trust is not going to happen just because Charles Katz is going to spend 60 minutes with you in an initial visit.  When a client thinks of us as their trusted business advisor, we feel that’s the ultimate compliment we can receive.

Do you recall the largest amount of back-work you’ve been able to secure?

I’ve acquired some back-work in the $1,200 to $1,500 range.

What types of things do you tend to do when you’re securing that back- work? Any advice you can offer to another salesperson who is out there trying to collect those back-work amounts? Sometimes, as you said, they can run pretty high. How do you address those with a client?

First of all, we let them know we don’t need all the money up front, at least in my firm we don’t. We will spread it out over the first few months. Secondly, I try to let them know that if we’re going to start doing their monthly work, the work needs to be up to date in order to move forward. The other thing I try to emphasize is that in doing our work for the prospect, we’re going to correct things; we’re going to legitimize their business. I try to let clients know that if we’re going to prepare financial statements for them on a monthly basis, it’s more than just a scoreboard that will let them know how they did last month. Good financial statements can be used as an effective management tool and there will be another set of eyes that are reviewing their business on a monthly basis. To get there, we have to have a starting point; that’s where the back-work comes in. There’s no easy way around it, I think it’s just being truthful and explaining that our fees are based on the amount of time we’re putting in and that the quote I’m giving for back-work is an estimate. I work for a firm that’s been in business for a long time, and if we find the amount of time we put in comes in less than what we’ve quoted them, then we’re not going to charge them for something we didn’t do.

That’s a good way to break it down for the client. It’s critical that they understand where that fee is coming from and how important it is to get current with the record so that the relationship can move forward. What’s been your most successful NCI closing technique?

I would say the one I use more than anything else is the action close. I’ve used all of them, but, in my presentation, I just pull out the agreement and start writing things down and filling in the contact information. As I’m completing this, I say, “Is this something you want to get started with today or is it something you’re just thinking about?” I try to make it very non-threatening; I’ve tried to make it so that as I’m completing the agreement, it’s just a natural progression in the presentation. I’ve learned about the owner and their business and why they agreed to our appointment. I’ve addressed their objections and the next natural step in the process is to complete our agreement form. I let them know there’s no contractual obligation and that they’re going to have something in writing so they know what our fees are.

When the situation is appropriate, I will use the results-assurance program. If I know I’m in a competitive situation where the prospect has said he will be speaking to another two firms before deciding, I’m looking for a way to separate myself from the crowd. I use that results-assurance program when I feel I really need to separate our service from the competition.

I really want to stress the importance of separating your company from the competition. There are many accountants that can produce a monthly P&L. I honestly believe the thing that separates us is in what I call the “touchy feely stuff.” It’s in tax planning, trying to let the prospect know that we’re going to be there for them so we can help them with their business and personal financial lives, and that we want to help them run and manage their business better. I think it’s important to separate yourself from the crowd and I find the intangibles go a long way towards doing that.

All these things add up to give a better feel to the firm. You’re offering something a lot of other firms don’t really put out there, the personal relationship and the high level of service.

I think the other thing that’s important is the unlimited consultation that is part of my presentation. For example, if while I’m quoting someone $200 or $250 a month I find they have no interest in the monthly accounting package, I suggest maybe they’d like to discuss something with our CPA for an hour a month at a billing rate of a few hundred dollars an hour. Then, I point out what they would be getting with the unlimited consultation for only $200 a month, when it would be $200 an hour to sit down and talk to our CPA, based on the hourly rate. 

That’s a good thing to point out. It really establishes the value they are getting and selling a service is all about building value. A good accounting package represents tremendous value.

Right, in addition I want to mention the tax-planning element of the service. A lot of people think they know what it is and they think it’s really complex. I try to break things down into their simplest parts. I tell everyone I speak to that tax planning, in the simplest terms, is our firm trying to help you keep as much of your money as possible, while paying the smallest amount to the government that is legally possible.

Both the unlimited consultation and the tax planning are both great selling points

Another thing I find helpful is if during the scheduling of an appointment, the prospect indicates they are not happy with their current accountant, I have instructed the appointment setters to ask what they are not happy about. If I have that information prior to going into an appointment, that is something I can address directly and inform the prospect that those issues can be resolved by working with us.

What questions do you make sure to ask on every appointment?

One thing I try to do more than anything else is to get them to do the talking. I do set the agenda at the opening of the meeting. I say, “what I like to do during these initial meetings is give a brief impression of who we are, but I want to spend the majority of our time learning about you and your business and then I want to ask you some specific questions about your business to learn even more.” So, one of the first things I say when I meet someone is, “please, tell me about your business.” People love to talk about their business. I try to ask open-ended questions so they can’t answer with just a “yes” or a “no”. I try to get them to do most of the talking and if I can accomplish that, they will reveal quite a bit. It’s about asking open-ended questions, being a very good listener and effectively responding to objections.

That really sums it up. The information revealed by asking those questions is very powerful and gives you the tools you need to ultimately make the sale.

Definitely I also make a point to ask prospects I talk to “what are the most important things to you about the accounting firm you decide to work with?” I want to know what they want out of an accounting relationship. Another way of asking that question is to simply ask why they agreed to the appointment in the first place. “What were the issues in your mind that led you to agree to this appointment with me?”

Yes, that’s one of the questions on NCI’s probing sheet. If they agreed to an appointment there is a reason for that and it’s up to you to find out what that reason is and use it to your advantage.

Another thing I make sure to do is, no matter where the conversation goes, I want to stay on track and steer it back around to the presentation. I use the presentation taught to me by NCI as my base and my foundation. The presentation structure works and I’m not trying to ad-lib or reinvent the wheel. It works so why change it?

Thank you. One question I’d like to ask, as we are still embroiled in “the great recession,” is how do you handle price objections? Are you seeing more of those than you are used to?

One thing I do is I always confirm an appointment before going out to see someone, because is very spread out. I will try to prequalify someone and let them know that we have a monthly package of accounting services that will really help them run and manage their business and our fees generally start at $200 a month. Is this something they may have some interest in? If someone then says to me, “no, I’ll tell you right now, I really can’t afford more than $50 a month,” I will politely respond that we may not be the best firm to help them. Jacksonville

If someone else says, “I’m willing to listen and I’d like to meet with you,” then I’m going to proceed full-steam ahead.  At the end of the presentation, when I’m putting the agreement together, if they talk about pricing, I will politely respond using the business they are in. For example, if they are a building contractor, I will say, “I’m sure you’d agree not all builders are created equal. The same goes for accounting firms and CPAs. Our fee structure is based on the amount of time we feel we are going to spend to do your work correctly and, of course, there is some profit built in, just like any business.

I try to emphasize that our fees are very fair and if they cannot afford them due to the recession, I understand that. I’ve had people say to me, “I can’t afford this now but I like what you’ve had to say and things are really picking up, so call me again in three to six months and we can revisit this.” I will then schedule a specific day and time for me to follow up with them based on their timeline and I will follow up on that day and time. This will help you close business because it shows the prospect you are organized and you do what you say you are going to do when you say you’re going to do it.

In regard to pricing, I think it is a really good idea to put things in terms that the prospect can relate to. It also makes a big difference if you are honest and up front with your prospects regarding pricing. Do you have any advice for our other CSRs in the field running this program?

I know it’s hard to say to be patient because we all have bills and we all have to eat and be able to put gas in our vehicles. You need to be in this for the long hall; this is not necessarily instant gratification, in my opinion. I think we all have to recognize we’re in a very difficult economy. I think self-prospecting is very important. One thing I’ve picked up on is, anytime you see a new restaurant has opened up, you should drop by, because immediately any restaurant that opens is going to have payroll issues and they’re going to have to manage sales tax. So there is a real, immediate need there for our type of service in the restaurant industry.

What is your business relationship like with your boss, Tim Howard? Can you offer any advice to other accountants running this program and working with CSR to help them manage this program?

I think I have a strong relationship with Tim Howard. I think it is very important that we do not overpromise and underperform. What that means with the accounting firm is that if we are bringing in work, we have to get started on it and do things on a timely basis. I’ve talked to Tim about the importance of having whoever ends up handling the processing of an account that I’ve brought in to continue that trusting relationship that I’ve laid the foundation for. It’s important to deliver on your promises in a timely fashion and to continue to develop that young relationship, because you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

That is excellent advice. What about the appointment setter side of the program? That tends to be a problem area for some firms; can you offer any advice about managing the appointment setters?

I’ve been fortunate when it comes to appointment setters. In the time I’ve been here, we have had the same two appointment setters. It is critical to make the appointment setters realize that they are vitally important to you, the sales rep. It’s also important to communicate with them and to make them feel that they are a part of the team; that we’re all in this together. I communicate and stay in touch with my appointment setters. As soon as they book an appointment, I want to be contacted. Also if someone will not agree to meet with me after talking to the appointment setter but they are agreeable to a phone appointment with me, then I tell them to go ahead and schedule a phone appointment so they can speak with me directly. When times are difficult, as they are now, I will work by phone appointment when needed. I think it’s important to build a trusting relationship with your appointment setters and be a team leader for them. Make sure you let them know that you are available to them when they are having issues or concerns. They get frustrated, too, when they aren’t booking appointments. Encouragement is important and if their numbers drop off a bit, and you know they are doing the job properly, you have to keep them motivated.  Let them know that slow days are going to happen and you have to keep at it. I let my appointment setters know that they are vital to me; I say, “without you and your efforts, I don’t eat.”

I think the importance of the appointment setter role often gets overlooked and this is a mistake. I want to sincerely thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to speak with me; you’ve given a lot of great insight into the mind and actions of a successful CSR.

My pleasure.  Thank you for featuring me.

Chris Clark